How much money is enough? And what changes when a physician finally reaches that number? In Part 2 of this conversation, Dr. Anders Apgar and Dr. Jerry Schreibstein dig into financial independence, the time value of money, the decisions that matter most in your 30s, and how reaching “enough” can quietly transform the way you practice medicine.
In Part 1, Dr. Jerry Schreibstein shared the money stories that shaped him. In Part 2, the conversation turns practical and personal.
Together, they explore the real meaning of “enough,” why a financial plan must remain dynamic, and how the time value of money rewards early discipline more than perfect stock picks. They examine the high-stakes decisions of a physician’s 30s, housing, cars, savings habits, and contrast spending on experiences that create lasting emotional dividends with purchases that depreciate.
The discussion also covers what it feels like to hit your number, how financial independence can restore joy and selectivity in clinical work, the language gap between physicians and traditional advisors, and why financial literacy itself should be treated as a core well-being intervention.
Finally, Jerry offers targeted advice for residents, mid-career physicians, and those approaching retirement, and the single number every physician should know tonight.
Top 3 Actionable Takeaways:
Resources Mentioned:
About the Show:
Direct Well-Being is hosted by Dr. Anders Apgar, MD, FACOG, M.S., a physician leader dedicated to transforming clinician well-being. The podcast creates space for honest, practical conversations about the factors that influence physician well-being, including financial stress, career sustainability, healthcare systems, relationships, and professional purpose.
About the Guest:
Dr. Jerry Schreibstein, MD, FACS, is a practicing otolaryngologist and President of Ear, Nose and Throat Surgeons of Western New England, with more than 30 years of experience leading a private single-specialty group in Western Massachusetts. He founded MD Wealthcare LLC and continues to advocate for physicians building sustainable careers through clinical excellence, financial literacy, and intentional life planning.
About the Host:
Anders Apgar, MD, FACOG, M.S., is a physician leader dedicated to transforming clinician well-being. As host of the Direct Well-Being Podcast, he leads honest conversations about the real drivers of distress : financial stress, mental health, family dynamics, and broken systems, for physicians and the organizations that support them.
A trusted voice in health care, Dr. Apgar blends lived clinical experience with evidence-aligned insights. He’s part of the Direct Ecosystem (Direct Self Care, Direct Wealth Care, Direct Practice Care), partnering with organizations like Tend Health, the Well-Being Index, and Champions of Wellness to move the conversation from awareness to agency.
Connect with Dr. Anders Apgar
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General contact: info@directwellbeingpodcast.com
Listener feedback: feedback@directwellbeingpodcast.com
Guest pitches: guests@directwellbeingpodcast.com
Sponsorship conversations: sponsors@directwellbeingpodcast.com
[00:00:00]
Welcome back to the Direct Well-Being Podcast. If you listened to part one of my conversation with Dr. Jerry Schreibstein, you already know why we needed a second episode. Sure, we started with Jerry's story and his experience in medicine before diving into his professional pivot into physician wealth management and burnout mitigation.
But as we kept talking, the conversation started to hit closer to home. We explored how money influences behavior and how the horizons we set for ourselves can quietly shape the decisions we make throughout our careers. Because when your horizon is only the next paycheck, the next call schedule, or the next few months, you make one kind of decision.
But when you begin to see five, ten, or twenty years ahead, you may make very different ones, and that's where things pick up today. In part two, Jerry and I continue that journey, looking at financial independence, the choices physicians make as their incomes grow, and what happens when money stops being simply something we earn and [00:01:00] starts becoming a tool that can create options, autonomy, and control over our time.
Because maybe the goal isn't simply to accumulate more. Maybe the goal is to create enough freedom that the decisions we make about medicine and about our lives are actually ours to make. And before we finish, Jerry and I will take on some of the questions every guest on this podcast eventually faces.
So if you haven't listened to part one, uh, uh, uh, get back to your podcast home screen and touch my pretty face on part one. No jumping ahead. Start there. If you have listened to part one, great job, and welcome back. Let's continue my conversation with Dr. Jerry Schreibstein
so here's the million-dollar question, and pun intended: How much money is enough?
Oh. Oh, yeah. I was gonna say it depends, but I know you won't let me get away with [00:24:00] that, right?
No. I think the answer is, Whatever amount allows you to meet your goals in a way that, it's comfortable, and that you can plan for some speed bumps along the way. And, I'm a big planning guy. I became a investment advisor 'cause I believe in planning, I believe in paying for expertise.
You know, there's a lot of DIY stuff out there for finance, and quite honestly, Anders, I could have done it myself, but I chose to have a good advisor, and do other things. and I think, planning ahead is important. Understanding, we've had a big up market recently, you know, the last several years, and it's easy to be a good stock picker in this environment or a fund picker.
but really when, the market goes down or when you're nervous about making a big purchase or your child is, going off to school and you're looking at funding that, having someone who's a expert and giving you advice and [00:25:00] consultation is very helpful. So the, amount of money that, Someone who doesn't wanna live in a big city or is not in a big city, is in a smaller community, maybe less.
if you're living in a community with a lower cost of living, you don't need as much for the future, right? I think that's the thing that when I talk to residents about looking at jobs, it's not just a salary number. It's not just, how much work you're gonna do. It's where are you gonna live?
What's your lifestyle gonna cost? And, if you're not someone who wants to buy a bunch of cars and you wanna be, you know, go outside and, just go for hikes or go skiing like our mutual friend, like that's a different ballgame, right? Yeah. and so it depends on, if you're a big city person, you wanna live in New York City, then that number is a multiple of what my number is.
So when I was young, or any physician is young, the way they determine their number is to plan, but it sounds like there's a couple pieces to that plan, is how much do you wanna spend? How much do you wanna save? And when do you want to have the finish line come? You [00:26:00] call it a target. Brian Case calls it the X-axis.
Dr. Neil- Right ... you called it a finish line. So where do you want that to land? How much are you willing to save to get there? Does that sound right?
how much are you saving along the way to get there with a certain degree of, comfort that, there may be some down markets along the way.
people talk about 25 times, your salary. There's all these different formulas out there, but the reality is you c- there's lots of software that can help you do it. You can plug in everything about, okay, I wanna get a new car every three years, every six years. My daughter's gonna get married, is gonna s- I'm gonna spend this much.
But at the end of the day, it's really about trying to understand what your needs are, what your goals are, and what you'd like to do, right? And, how you can set aside enough money to do that, but leave you some money to enjoy the present and enjoy your family and make memories and, Emotional dividends, not just financial dividends.
Yeah. [00:27:00] And I'd like to reiterate what you said earlier too, the plan is allowed to change.
Yeah. And I'm sure your plan, you've talked about your show, your, different ways of life, and your plan's changed along the way, and my plan's changed. Yep. You know, things happen.
Stuff happens. Yeah.
And it's easier to adapt when you've got a diversified... I'm not even gonna talk about fund portfolio, but you've got a diversified way of saving money, basically.
Right. I mean, you need to have, all the basics. You need to s-save, maximize your retirement plans. You need to have an emergency fund.
You need to have, some growth stuff in your taxable accounts. there's definitely a formula, but both, asset allocation, s-stocks, bonds, growth, value, but also asset location, like which types of accounts you're gonna be in. But, you know, that's part of the formula. I think the emotional thing really is figuring out what your goals are for the next five or 10 years, 20 years.
They're gonna change, but, have a good advisor to [00:28:00] help you plan that and allow for the optionality of doing different things along the way.
So let's talk a little-- Let's go back to your 30s, and this goes back again to my Chasing That Ghost episode too. if you don't mind sharing, what decisions in your 30s mattered far more than you realized at the time?
So I think, how much you're gonna spend on a house. I think, where you're gonna live, you know, what region you're gonna live in, what's the cost of living that region? And we talked about some of the spend things, how much are you gonna put away on a car? How long are you gonna keep a car?
But I think the most important thing is what I try to tell my kids who are now 26 and 30, it's setting good habits. I think that's the most important thing that I did, right? I've done nothing fancy from an investment standpoint. No big tech, no crazy Nvidia stocks, whatever. But all I did was let compounding work for me, time value of money, and have discipline and figure out a plan and stick [00:29:00] with a plan.
Yeah.
and allow yourself, bucket strategy, whatever you wanna say. Okay, here's my retirement plan. Here's my money for my house down payment. Here's my vacation fund. And even put little bits of money in every couple of weeks. Be surprised, it's, it grows. You plant the seed, it grows.
Yeah. I know there's a formula involved with this.
Will you do me a huge favor, please, and teach me what the time value of money means?
Well, time value of money means the longer the money is in the market or being invested, the faster it grows. So for instance, a typical example, let's say you have, someone who's 25 years old and they put $5,000 away in a, let's say a Roth account, which is a tax-free account, for 10 years.
they put overall $50,000 away from 25 to 35, and if it earns 7% a year and it grows tax, deferred, they are gonna have more money [00:30:00] at the end than someone who starts at age 35 and puts that same $5,000 away for the next 30 years, because that compounding keeps happening. So that $5,000, becomes $10,000, that $10,000 becomes $20,000, and it's a snowball effect.
So if you think about a snowball, as it gets down the hill, it's getting bigger and bigger. That's the same thing. That corpus Keeps growing and keeps doubling. Almost like cell division, right? you're a reproductive guy, right? So you got a, you got little mitoses, and then all of a sudden you see nothing, and it gets bigger and bigger, and all of a sudden you have a baby.
Yeah. That's
very true. It's the same thing. Same thing. I just thought of that tonight- Yeah ... after, so I'm gonna use that. But that's basically what's happening, right?
Well, yeah, I'm more accustomed to gametes, though. I go m- a lot more meiosis than mitosis. Right.
Right. That's true.
Meiosis, yeah.
Ha, just trying to impress you with some big words.
w- Yeah, I can remember that somewhere from the past.
I got a kid in med school. We're doing it right now. That and biochem. Ugh.
Oh, God.
Yeah. throughout your life, I think you've touched on this, but let's [00:31:00] say it again.
What did you happily spend money on?
Oh, I think I happily spent money on, experience with the kids, gifts for my family, and, travel, and we didn't travel a lot when the kids were young. but, we did some traveling. But we made it, a point to travel with friends and start, like, a little bucket list things, afterwards as we got older.
Yeah. I think wealth is that appreciation of experience over things eventually as I get more gray hair. Right ... let me flip the coin on you. what did you absolutely refuse to spend money on and what could you tell many of our listeners to absolutely refuse to spend money on?
Well, I think there's no absolutes, right?
there's no absolutes. But, we were fortunate to, be able to purchase a second home, okay? And I talked to my advisor. I was very nervous about doing that and, we're very fortunate to do that, and he says, "That's something you're gonna enjoy.
That's something that's gonna appreciate." He's like, "Don't go out and buy a [00:32:00] sailboat." I'm even somewhat embarrassed even to talk about that, Anders, because I think we're fortunate to be able to do that, but I think those are things that I see people do.
Go out and buy a fancy car, a fancy boat. they don't use it, it depreciates and, It's okay if you have that money, it's not gonna affect your financial plan, more power to you, right?
Mm-hmm.
But I think trying not to get yourself, buying too many toys.
Stay on plan.
You can go off plan. You just have to understand, what the implications are and, When I looked at this house, one of my senior partners said to me, who's now in his 80s, he said, "You can afford the house and if you have to work an extra year or two to make it work for your plan, that's good.
if you don't like the house, you'll sell it. It's not gonna go to zero. You might take a loss, but it's not gonna go to zero."
Yeah.
So it was a scary thing. But, there's value there and it's not gonna be zero. Yeah. So you might take a hit, or you might have to work an extra, you know, year or two, but maybe you take a little bit more vacation along the [00:33:00] way and you're a better person because you're relaxed and you're not burned out.
Yeah. I like that. You can make mistakes in your plan and they will not totally bankrupt you. They won't absolutely bankrupt you. Right. There's no absolutes, but there is an Absolut Vodka. In
several flavors, yes.
do you remember this moment when you looked at the numbers and you thought, "We're gonna be okay"?
Yeah. I mean, I look at the numbers a lot, probably more than most people do 'cause I'm a numbers guy. butI set my plan when I was 30 to say I'm gonna retire at 58. And, when 57 came around and it's like, "Oh, look, whatever that number was," or it's a great feeling to know that, okay, you've made it, now don't screw it up.
Don't do anything stupid, and, figure out how you want to work the next few years. So I'm actually gonna be cutting my hours back in January and, you know, reducing. I'm still gonna work, [00:34:00] but not as much in my clinical practice as I expand this, financial planning, financial advisor practice. I wanna spend more time in this.
What's interesting is that my personal financial advisor said, "You're crazy. You're gonna give up all this income as a physician and chase physicians who aren't necessarily good clients, and you're never gonna make the same amount of money on a, you know, equivalent basis."
I'm like, "I don't care." it's a passion project, right?
Mm-hmm.
And I said, "You set me up to be able to do this."
Yes.
Like, this is what I wanna do.
Yeah.
And so it was an interesting conversation.
That's great. two points, that you bring up. Dr. Rich Salter talked about, spending 20% of your week doing something that you're passionate about or that brings- Yeah, love that episode
Yeah. A brilliant guy. A really, really smart guy. Hope he's listening, Rich. and the other thing is Did everybody hear this? The financial planner, the financial advisor has a financial advisor. Like, it's like Tiger Woods has a coach himself too. The expert has a coach.
Yeah. So two things. Those are two great [00:35:00] points.
I'll take the first one. I was fortunate my wife, stayed home with the kids after her law career but it allowed me to be involved in organized medicine. president of our state society, involved in our national academy. I got a lot of satisfaction from being in organized medicine for many years, and that was, something that, I was fortunate that my spouse allowed me to do that, and she spent more time with the kids when they were little and dealt with that stress.
But, I, gave up some of the income and did, those things, but that was very satisfying. and I think that's really important to find, your other passion, during your work hours, whether it's volunteering or doing, being involved in a board or a nonprofit or your religious organization or music or playing golf, whatever it is.
Make sure you make time for yourself to do other things, and make sure you make time to be with your spouse or your significant other also, because that's really important.
Absolutely. Let's give a [00:36:00] shout-out to your spouse and all the spouses out there who run the
homes.
Yeah.
And it's hard, and if you're a two-doctor family, it's really hard.
If you're a two-doctor family and your debt is twice as much, it's really hard to do. As your family, you've talked about that. and also it's hard about bringing stress from work home. So I was fortunate that, I was able to have, you know, some release at home.
That's awesome. Awesome.
And then, what was the second part of it? It was a two-part there.
oh, the financial advisor having a financial advisor.
Yeah. That's a good one. Everyone should have a coach, right? There's nothing wrong with having a coach.
you have a mentor, you have your, resident, your chief resident, your attending, who is your mentor for your career. And I think you should have a mentor for your financial career and to help you with your financial wellness. Now, yes, there's cost involved, and you can debate whether there's value added.
I'm hoping that I'm delivering value added to my clients as we move forward in delivering my perspective. But I think it's important.
Yeah.
And I think it's really important [00:37:00] to, have a frame of reference and some backup.
Yeah. I think you're uniquely positioned. So when you did reach your number, when you made that number and you sat back, you go, "Okay.
Okay. I'm there. I don't have to stop practicing, but I don't necessarily have to keep practicing." Were you able to practice differently afterwards, decision-making or anything like that?
I think I'm probably a little bit more selective now, cases, elective cases that I might choose to operate on, patients I may not feel like I'm hitting it off with.
first of all, I think that maybe come with maturity as a surgeon and as a physician, but, you know, recognizing, dynamics in the doctor-patient relationship and realizing who maybe to refer to one of your partners or refer to a different, academic center, right? but I don't feel the pressure to, like, keep all those patients in the practice or, if something happens and a few patients cancel, maybe I don't get so anxious about, asking the staff to fill those slots or I'll take an early day every once in a while.
So I definitely think it's [00:38:00] made it a lot better.
Yeah. Does reaching financial independence allow a physician in general to fall back in love with medicine?
Some days. Not always, but some days. I I think it allows you the opportunity to craft, your day a lot better. You know, it gives you more ability to do things that you wanna do, challenge yourself some more or take your foot off the gas a little bit.
My senior partner years ago told me it's a marathon, not a sprint. it's very hard when you're a young surgeon coming out of training wanting to go, and, I think we're all on a little bit of a treadmill or like a gerbil in the cage. but I think it's good to take your foot off the gas a little bit .
Yeah. And as you're pursuing this formal wealth management education and still continuing as a physician, You've touched on this again, but let's go dig into it a little bit more. Why did you feel compelled to learn this formally and help other physicians?
Well, we talked about our friend Brian Case, and so [00:39:00] during, COVID, Brian and I were talking a lot about, physician wellness and his work with, Mayo Wellbeing Index and, his wife is an OBGYN, and how there's really not some good metrics for understanding physician financial wellness or financial stress.
I helped him with a lot of the surveys and, parsing this all out, and then he's like, "Hey, you're good at this. Why don't you just go get a wealth management certificate?" So I said, "Okay, I can do three things at once." So I went and I got my Wealth Management Certified Professional from the American College of Financial Services, and I like to say it's like a CFP Lite.
It's similar, but not necessarily the same. And then when I did that, I said, "Oh, well, what's the next step?" He's like, "Well, you gotta get a license, and you gotta get a license by FINRA, the financial industry." So I said, "Okay, I'll take that exam." So I took the Series 65, and that allowed me to actually be a investment advisor representative and actually have the [00:40:00] formal credentials.
and I feel like I learned so much. I mean, I have to say I learned so much. I learned, a lot about, why I did things along the way or why my advisor recommended I did certain things. I learned some new things that my advisor didn't know, which was really fun, going back to him with some stuff.
But I think, it was a great, learning experience, and I'm excited to be able to share that with, my physician colleagues.
Yeah, I think it's fantastic. Now, what do financial advisors commonly misunderstand about physicians?
well, I think that they don't really understand what they're talking about.
I think there's a language gap. And, I think as physicians, we often see ourselves as the smartest person in the room, and you got through medical school, Everyone's super smart. but financial advisors are speaking a different language. Just like when we're talking to patients think we're speaking a different language.
It's the same thing. And so I feel I'm uniquely positioned to be able to be that bridge, right? [00:41:00] 'Cause I can speak both languages. Yeah. but I think that's a thing that, we miss, and I think physicians don't ask questions when they don't know something. You know, I've seen this with colleagues and friends, talking with business consultants, and business consultants going over the profit and loss statement or the-
the finances for our practice, and everyone's going, shaking their head. And I go like, "They don't know what you're talking about." tell me about time value of money. I dropped that on you, right? Yeah. And you're like, "Okay, tell me about that." Most often if you're in a meeting, someone's not gonna raise their hand 'cause they're afraid to Be vulnerable, right?
They don't wanna be vulnerable. It'll make their colleagues think that they don't know an answer.
They're going broke with that thought process.
Right.
what mistakes do physicians commonly make when they choose advisors?
I think when they choose an advisor that is only interested in investing their money for a fee, as opposed to being their financial coach, their financial planner.
one of my [00:42:00] colleagues at dinner, looking at, his retirement plan and his advisor who's been investing his money really couldn't articulate a good strategy for his, deaccumulation, setting himself up for the future.
I thought that was really interesting, and he has no formal written plan.
Wow. An exit strategy.
Yeah, exit strategy. And like I said, it's dynamic, but I feel that's the biggest mistake that people make, and they don't choose an advisor who understands the physician life cycle. I think that's really important because there's certain things that are happening during residency and your early attending years, different pressures, different responsibilities, your different abilities to save.
Yeah. you may not be able to save a large amount of money early on, but it's coming, Yeah. and I think as you make that transition from,med school, residency, now you're trying to get out of [00:43:00] debt, y-you've lived a, controlled lifestyle, then you have a lot of free cash flow to help you.
Mm-hmm. And I think a, a lot of advisors just see that free cash flow and don't take the time to explain to the physicians about what the implications are for managing that. So they can get to their goals , right? The most important thing is not so you have this big pile of money. The most important thing is having a plan that allows you to get to your goals, right?
We all think about having an advisor is gonna, we wanna beat the market. Everyone wants to beat the market. I wasn't concerned about beating the market. I was concerned about not losing money and making sure that my plan was a success. It's like, how often does a patient family ask you, "Hey, Dr.
Apgar, how long is that operation gonna take?" Dr. Shryms says, "How long is it gonna take?" I'm like-
Mm-hmm ...
how long do you want me to take it? Do you want me to do the fast operation? Do you want me to do the slow operation, or do you want me to do the right operation, right? At the end of the day, it's the outcome that matters.
Yeah. Very true. My [00:44:00] patients, A lot of them are awake in C-sections, and they're the ones going, "Are you done yet? Are you done yet?" Yeah, well,
they want that thing, they want that baby out fast.
I'm like, "I could just put up one stitch and it will be done." You know- Yeah ... do you cook with the microwave a lot too?
teach us, if you will, how can a physician, the average physician that might be listening to this, how can they tell education from a sales pitch?
Well, I think the most important thing is if the advisor's listening to you, right? If the advisor's selling you a product or a scheme versus listening to what your goals are, what your wants are, and trying to just like a patient would choose a physician. do you understand where I'm coming from?
Do you understand what outcome I want from this relationship? I think that's important.
Yeah. The listening. do you have a lineup card of who should be on a physician's financial team?
Yeah. So that's the interesting thing that I started with Bradley Foster Sargent is that, obviously I'm new at this, but I have a lot of life experience, and I understand the [00:45:00] physician cycle, and I understand the financial terms.
But I've put together a team of someone who's a dedicated planner, a dedicated, financial analyst, and a team of people. And so you wanna have a team. You wanna, you want experts in different fields. You want a good accountant, you want a good lawyer, right? So it's important, almost a concept of a family office, right, where you have a group of experts that are serving the family.
And that's what I'm trying to put together.
Yeah. That's brilliant. So if financial stress contributes to clinician burnout, should financial literacy or understanding that language of finance actually be considered a physician wellbeing intervention?
I think so.
I think it's important to, understand where you are in the process. there are some surveys out there, the Direct Wealth Care survey to look at, your level of financial stress, financial readiness. I think, we've convinced the Mayo Clinic, wellbeing indexed, I think to add some, financial stress [00:46:00] levels on there, and I think it's important.
I think it's also important for physicians to not be afraid to talk about finance. You know, I think it's been a taboo subject for a long time.
Mm-hmm.
we're dealing with money every day in our practices, but we're afraid to talk about, money because, let's face it, physicians make much more than the average American.
We're very fortunate. people sacrifice a lot to get there, which I think the average person doesn't realize how much. and how many family events you've missed 'cause you're delivering a baby, or you're in surgery. so it's not just about the money. The money is a proxy in a, an attempt to compensate you for your time.
but it's, but I think it's important to understand and be able to talk to your colleagues about money and to be able to talk to professionals about your money. I
appreciate that. Thank you for ver- also, a great answer, but thank you for [00:47:00] validating me and the Direct Wellbeing podcast.
Absolutely. That's what I'm here for, Anders.
I really appreciate it. Let me, give you a copay and lay down on the couch too. we'll get really into it. Well, it's a little bit
of,financial psychiatry, right? I mean-
Yeah ...
it is. That's
what- It's- ...
coaching's all about ...
there's a lot of attitude and psychiatry that goes into, I think a lot of the things we do, particularly in service industries.
So understanding people is about understanding their mood and their s- and what drives them. That's, in a lot, the psychiatry simply put. but there's, right now there's thousands of people listening to the Direct Well-Being podcast, millions across the planet. Yeah, right. It's awesome ... or maybe 10 or 20.
That's just your family, right?
I have them, the extended families. I have an account for the dog, too, just to make sure. but hopefully somewhere there's a resident driving to work. There's a 42-year-old physician with three kids who's listening and maybe there's a 58-year-old physician who's terrified that she's behind the eight ball.
let's talk about them separately. Let's give them each one thing to do next Monday morning. [00:48:00] This is Wednesday. let's give them the weekend to, think about this stuff and really then maybe incorporate it as early as Monday. So let's start with the resident. What should they do?
I think they should take stock of what their financial life looks like. Take stock about, do they have debt? They don't... are they fortunate not to have debt? How much debt do they have? What's their obligation? What does that look like? you know, what's their spouse or significant other situations?
Talk about money with your significant other so you understand what their, concerns are, right? And think about where you wanna be in the next three to five to 10 years And just sort of make some goals. Understand what you wanna get out of your career, what type of practice you want, and, what your, financial obligations are.
I think that's the most important thing. So, and then for residents, there's some simple stuff. I give a talk to, our, otolaryngology residents. Don't forget the free money. You know, make [00:49:00] sure you're maximizing your 401plan or your HSA so you're getting a match. If there's a match, make sure you're doing at least that much to qualify for matching free money, right?
Don't forget the free money. There's free money along the way, even as a resident.
that can't be said enough times, that match. Thank you for that. Now let's talk- And it
adds up. And it adds up, right? So it's things that you do, behaviors that you, learn as a resident will follow you for the rest of your career.
and the, those financial habits you develop early on, will be rewarded in the future.
So true. So true. And I can bring that back to something more clinical too. Closing your charts quickly and not leaving them behind is something that you can learn early, and it's a good habit. Same thing with money habits.
Start them early.
so now someone in their 40s is driving along going, "Yeah, I'm 10 years past that. What am I supposed to do?"
they're 10 years past it, but there's plenty of time. I think the most important thing to say, time is on your side, right?
Time value of money, [00:50:00] time is on your side. One of our clients, one of my clients came to me and said, "We just wanna know we're on the right course. We wanna know that we're doing the right things" And that's where the value of a plan, that's where a value of understanding what their values are and what they want for their family.
Do they want to, leave a legacy to their community, their church, synagogue, religious organization? What's important to them? Do they have parents that they have to look after? and how they set themselves up for the future. They wanna make sure they're funding their kids' college appropriately. and so I think that person in their,
early to mid-career, let them know there's still time and take stock and do an analysis and say, "Look, here's where you're at. you've paid down your debt, you've got a few kids,you're settled in your house, but okay, now is the time to put stuff aside for your future.
And make sure you spend a little bit along the way on your family."
Love that. Okay, so now talk to that physician 10 years from retirement, maybe [00:51:00] less. They're th- they're driving down the road going, "I've been in this game for 20-something years and, I don't have a plan. I have nothing yet," or, I haven't started, and I can't even think of how to get started."
Talk to them.
About retirement, right. So there's a great book, by, Christine Benz from Morningstar. It's called How to Retire. and I'll send you a copy or at least a link 'cause it's great. Sweet. It's like, I've given it to a couple of my friends. So she took, 20 or so experts in the field of investments and, planning and,
compiled a book and I think the most important thing is figure out before you retire what you think retirement's gonna look like, so you can retire with purpose. So if you have hobbies, or if you don't have hobbies, get some, you know, figure out what your hobbies are, what you might wanna do, and, start, developing those.
Start developing your social network, which is gonna be important for your retirement. Start looking at places if you're thinking of leaving your community. Start [00:52:00] looking at other places. Maybe go there and vacation there, right? And of course, take stock with your advisor about your portfolio and make sure that you are on target.
And, just be thoughtful about it and enjoy it. You know, know that you're almost there pat yourself on the back because you've done a good job, and that you can see that your plan's, coming to fruition. Like, you know, the A-Team, remember that show?
I love a good plan when it comes together,
a, then he lit up a cigar too.
Yeah.
I love when a plan
comes- Mr. T and Hannibal. Hannibal. Mr. T and Hannibal. Yeah.
Look at you pulling that stuff out. That's awesome.
Yeah, I know. Yeah, it's a good TV reference.
No one else, you know, the younger folks on the... listening to this podcast are gonna have no idea what we're talking about.
No, but to be fair, we were talking about the physician 10 years from their retirement, so they should know that- That's right ... the others may know from syndicated reruns and things like that.
we're getting some very common questions before we get into that action item, Jerry. and again, thank you so much for spending so much time with us. a lot of great nuggets of, information here. I appreciate it. What are we not talking about that we should be talking about in [00:53:00] physician financial wellbeing?
Anything we've missed?
I think we've covered a lot of stuff. I think what we need to talk about really is just it's okay to talk about it. That's the most important thing. It's okay to talk to your colleagues, talk to your friends, but talk to someone who's an advisor who's trusted.
You're not gonna get in, investment... No one's gonna tell you the investments they made that didn't work out, right? Your friends will all tell you, "Oh, I bought this penny stock and it went up," and, "I invested in, the fourth... internet 4.0 before it was," right? But no one's gonna tell you they lost money in some, local tech company or the hottest new wireless charging company that their friend was pitching, right?
Mm-hmm. So they're not gonna tell you that. They're not gonna tell you about their dogs. so I think just keep an open mind and take everything with a grain of salt.
Yeah. I remember the old joke was that, how do you make a million dollars in the stock market? And you start with two million.
Right?
How do you make a million dollars [00:54:00] running a golf course? Put in 10, right? Something like
that. Exactly. what does financial anxiety look like at home?
Oh, now or for me?
No, for the average physician, what is that gonna look like?
with someone coming to you going, I'm freaking out. my financial plan is crap." and what does that look like? What does that happen to them in the home? How does that affect their home?
Yeah. I mean, it's stressful, right? So, money is one of the biggest stressors in a marriage.
and, your spouse needs to be on board with, understanding your attitude as a physician, or if it's a two-physician couple, you guys have to be on the same page or at least find some common ground, right? Because you may be the saver, and your spouse may be the spender, the w- person that wants to go to retail therapy, and I think, there's gotta be, a give and take for both.
So maybe there's like, okay, you know, a joke with one of my friends, there's a number. There's a certain number, it's $50, $100, five, whatever it is, depending on your, level of wealth, where you can just spend that [00:55:00] and you know it's not gonna make a difference. I heard, something on one of the financial podcasts, maybe it's like if it's like 0.1% or 0.01% of your net worth if you spend that, it doesn't matter.
It's not gonna affect anything, right? So there's a number for everyone that you're comfortable with that maybe you agree with your spouse. "Listen, you're spending 50 bucks or 100 bucks, whatever it is. I'm not gonna- stress over that. you go out and you buy a new Corvette, another story, right?
Right.
Wow. Stab in the back. I think I got a new move from
you.
It's like you have to have some commonalities and you can't, argue about little things.
Mm-hmm. You gotta figure out what's important. and when you're coming home and you're stressed, you need to be able to talk about that stuff.
Yeah. And I think you brought it up very nicely during the episode, which is money should be a vehicle that enhances your life and your relationship.
It shouldn't be something that comes in between happiness and marriage and children and things like that.
and you can't use money, as a strategy to control your kids or control your [00:56:00] spouse, right? Yeah. And you have to be open with... I mean, I'm trying to be open with my kids about it along the way, why mom and I were doing, different things and they might see somebody else down the street doing something different.
Then you try to have to explain to them why that may or may not be the right thing for our family. Yeah. Maybe it's good for their family, but that may not be the right thing for our family.
Yeah. Money is a tool. We use it for freedom, not for entrapment.
if you could change one thing tomorrow, what would it be for individual physicians or for medical training in general?
Well, obviously financial education, right? give physicians the language and the tools to, understand this financial world and this financial journey that we're on 'cause we're on a journey to help people and to take care of, our patients and our colleagues, but we also have to be able to take care of ourselves.
And, you know, physician, heal thyself, right? That's important, and I think financial literacy is a big part of that.
Yeah. So the action item we're gonna get to. the question for the action item, What's the [00:57:00] one number that every physician listening to this show should know about their finances tonight when they get home from work?
I guess net worth, is probably it takes stock of what you own and what you owe. And if you have a house and you have a big mortgage, you don't own as much of that house as you think you
own. So very true. So very true. Jerry, I really wanna thank you for being here. And again, thank you for the wisdom.
My pleasure. And, too bad for you, but we're gonna invite you back here at some point. One final question. If you could go back and talk to the young physicians signing those promissory notes at BU, knowing everything you know now, what would you tell young Jerry Schrabstien?
Well, I think I would tell them it's scary, and this is a solemn moment that you're taking on this obligation, but if you Work hard, you plan and you're disciplined, it's gonna turn out amazingly well And I'm, you know, very fortunate [00:58:00] to be able to be here with you tonight.
To think that I'd be on a podcast talking about financial wellness and, financial planning for physicians 30 years ago, I would have told you're crazy.
You and me both, brother.
Yeah. Well, it's great. Great. Really appreciate the invite.
Thank you so much for your time.